This was an idea rattling around in my head that wasn't originally thorough enough for its own post, but I thought might make a reasonable tidbit along the way. Then I started writing, and well, now here we are.
They said Generation would be included, but wouldn't work as a leveling system. Fair. How will it work? We've got no idea at this point, but here's one system I thought might have some interesting effects on the game experience. It's not, technically, a leveling system, but it does offer the Elders and Sires of strong lineages some power...
Fluid Generation (Pure Speculation): The "Antediluvians" Start off at Thirteenth Gen. Sort of.
The first players in the World of Darkness MMO will undoubtedly be Embraced by NPC's and/or staff members playing the part of Kindred online to start things off. Alternately, they might simply have the option, as early adopters, to start out play as Kindred, but that doesn't matter much for right now. Either way, as the game progresses, the dev's will phase out whatever mechanic gave the early players their first set of fangs, forcing newer players to approach older ones for the Embrace. However, I'm getting a bit ahead of myself.
These players will start out at effectively Thirteenth Generation. Why, you might ask, when they are literally the founders of their own individual Clans, in all but name? Because the game probably isn't designed to have the first players be walking gods, wielding their epic powers on an unsuspecting world. These players will have to experience the slow climb to power like the players that come after them, with the advantage of less initial competition to balance having fewer allies for support. They'll build what they can, on their own for a while, until new players show up, at which point things start getting interesting.
Once a given player Embraces her first Progeny, her Generation gets one step "stronger." That initial player is now Twelveth Generation, and her Progeny is now Thirteenth. That's the one and only time that the player's Embracing another will lower her Generation. Each Progeny she Embraces will only serve to widen her base of support. For her Generation to got down any further, one of her Progeny will need to Embrace another Player and so forth.
Perhaps they'll tie it to power of some kind. Maybe not. Perhaps they decide to use the old Cain mythos, and just play fast-and-loose with the back-story. ("Oh, I'm tenth Gen now? I guess I've always been nine steps removed from the Third Human, after all!"). Alternately, they could also just as easily scuttle that story and include some kind of mythology in which each Vampire draws power from every other vampire descended from her. I'm speculating here about mechanics and how they might influence behavior. The writing part isn't my bag. ;) Of course, apart from offering players supernatural power (larger Blood Pool, more Blood spent per turn, Elder-level Disciplines, et c), the dev's might just tie it to something simpler, like within a social system. We'd discussed elsewhere some ways they might automate Prestige and Status. It's been speculated elsewhere that perhaps the successes and failures of one's Progeny impact the Sire's social standing. As your offspring make names for themselves (for good or ill), it could well impact your own reputation by mechanically adding or subtracting a percentage of the "social points" earned or lost by your kids to or from yours. That might also work the other way as well, in which the sins of the father, so to speak, must be endured by the children.
What this does for game-play and player behavior:
This helps give Kindred players a reason to Embrace new players, but also creates its own strategic challenges. Every new player you Embrace will take time away from helping your other Progeny, thereby diminishing the likelihood that they'll Embrace, and so forth. The conversation around whether or not to offer a mortal player immortality will be nothing less than whether you want to tie your success (and that of your Sire, her Sire, and so forth) to this player's behavior. Further, because your Progeny's decisions around Progeny will impact you, in a sense, a prudent character might well consult her Sire before adding to the Family.
This is kind of a take on the "Friends & Neighbors" mechanic we see on other Social Network games (Read: FaceBook App-games). You have a built-in reason to get others involved in the game, to help them out, and to see them get increasingly involved, inviting others to play as well. It helps build player bonds, create a sense of familiarity, and still generate a bit of healthy competition. ("My Progeny have pushed Daddy up three pegs. What have yours done lately?") This does, of course, bring us to one small complication...
Complication: Aunts & Uncles
This does, of course, presume that the newest crop of Kindred will each Embrace the next cohort around the same time. It doesn't take into consideration what happens if you refuse to Embrace anyone, while your Brood-mates proliferate. Perhaps your Siblings' Progeny push you up as well. By virtue of being your Sire's Childe, yourself, you progress as she does. This would encourage players to assist their nephews and nieces, and create quite a lot of complexity in the game's social dynamics. Of course, perhaps once your Sire Embraces you, you're more or less on your own, as far as Generation goes. The proliferation of your Progeny and theirs may boost up your Sire's strength, but there's no free ride, and your siblings' Broods won't offer you anything. This would encourage a bit more selfishness within family lines, and even, perhaps, a bit of potential treachery. Again, the point here is that the decision they're making can have a large impact on player behaviors.
Diablerie?
There is certainly room here for Diablerie, under this mechanic (assuming, of course, that Generation offers a supernatural benefit). In short, successfully committing Diablerie upon another player of lower Generation lowers yours by one step. Simple enough. Your Progeny hence-forth start out stronger, and you get the benefits of stronger blood as well. Your Sire probably wouldn't get any stronger by your actions, but wouldn't necessarily get any kind of warning that your Generation had suddenly been lowered. (If your Progeny's Diablerie could lower your Generation as well, it would give players a very powerful incentive to send their Childer out to eat their rivals, all the while doing her best to cover it up herself). Of course, if they don't do anything like this, they could just as easily give players who eat other players a supernatural bonus (extra points to spend on Disciplines, for instance) for a potentially lethal social cost.
Global Event: Time of Thin Blood?
They did mention that while they're giving players the role of key story-tellers of this game, The Powers That Be might still create periodic events that have an impact on the player experience.
One example might be a so-called "Time of Thin Blood," in which the Progeny of any Thirteenth Generation player becomes Fourteenth instead, and her Sire remains Thirteenth until the Progeny makes her own little Thin-Blooded whelp. By creating a new lowest rung on the ladder, it makes room for a wider gap between haves and have-nots, as well as creating a sense that Strange Things are afoot. This could be pushed further with the introduction of a Fifteenth Generation, if needed, to further the tension and create greater paranoia.
And really, isn't that what we want from a World of Darkness game?
Thanks for reading, all!
11 Comments
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0 Merits
kthonik
131 days ago
I want to see it handled something like this: At character creation you select your prefered clans. CCP employed NPCs of 7th Gen are around at launch. All new PC are mortals. Any vampire can check to see if their clan is on the preferred list of a PC they can click on. If the vampire chooses to embrace the person gets a prompt asking if they want to accept the embrace as the sire's clan. If they accept they are 1 gen weaker than the sire. If they refuse they die. Then they get a cut scene were an anarch finds their body ditched in an alley in the slums and attempts to embrace them. If they accept they are now a 13th Gen Anarch of the clan they rated as their first preference at Character Creation and their sire gives them a lead to some friendly anarch NPC who starts them on a "learn to be a vampire" quest chain and disappears into the night. If they refuse they are perma dead and can roll a new mortal. I do NOT want generation to be some sort of pyramid scheme where those at the top gain more and more generation as the pyramid gets larger beneath them.
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-1 Merits
Haludan
131 days ago
But if this is intended to be like P&P World of Darkness, then that very well will be what happens. One of the things I love about world of darkness is it's lack of balance, there isnt even an attempt to balance it. Everything in world of darkness is linked to how long you have been around as a vampire; it is why I was so pleased CCP was the company to do this, since EVE seems to be based around the same concept.
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1 Merits
Malena
296 days ago
Very good thoughts! It would make sense also lore-wise. Caine created the kindred equal, so maybe before the generation curse, gaining bigger bloodpool or super powers was ruled by different 'natural' circumstances. It would be also a good option to encourage the players for siring and - if the boons currency would be remained - considering offering/spending the boons [and the major ones!] that could be used in any other way for such a thing like progeny. It would also give the Prince some real power upon his city, as he could choose then who is allowed to lower his generation and who not, and this way avoid some unnecesarily powerful kindred in his domain - just because they gained their power - mundane resources excluding - without his controlling it. That would also require from the Prince more long-term responsibility in balancing his own allies and power positions in the city and his own ability to rule the domain as its souveraign.
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z.o.o.
298 days ago
If C.C.P. is smart, then they'll create origin-related content exclusively for the Beta-testers who would then have their own lore and experience apart from the origin-related content made available upon general release.--- Secrets shared, secrets lost to time, both of these would facilitate a yearning for, and a searching for fulfillment; a desire which is itself the core element and grand irony of the vampire existence.
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Bloodartist
113 days ago
No matter how how sweet it would sound, no MMO developer will ever create content exclusively for betatesters. Because they never pay any money about the testing. That is just how the world is. The purpose of the game is in the long run to make money. They might create some kind of beta event, with developers playing event characters, but thats about as far as it goes. Sorry to be a negative Nellie.
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jlcrowl
113 days ago
In general, yes, and... they're breaking a lot of rules here, anyway, and it's vaguely possible. I certainly see what you mean about the business model (ie "why pay to develop content that no one will be paying to see, when we've already stated it'll be minimal dev-made content anyway"). Still, there's a possibility. For instance, when they were making Bloodlines, there was a beta-demo quest they only showed to reviewers to show what the game could do. I recall the article written about it referenced "The Pearl of Dubai," an item that didn't show up in the original release of the game. It wasn't until WESP found it in the source code (years after Troika collapsed) that any of the players who paid for the game saw that small bit of content. Just one example. : )
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jlcrowl
298 days ago
I could see that, Zoo. Truth told, I couldn't begin to guess what those secrets would be, though. I know Fallen London offered its early adopters a few Easter Eggs to show off later, though I'm not sure how that would work in a more AAA game. What kinds of secrets would you want your character to know, starting out?
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z.o.o.
298 days ago
Hmmm, well I dunno. Maybe the kind of secrets which can single-handedly annihilate an entire clan? For instance, the old idea that circa eight generations ago, the Nosferatu abducted a Malkavian who, after comingling her blood with theirs through the intercession of the aforementioned Malk's Tremere love interest to learn Obfuscate, sired a progeny who henceforth possessed Obfuscate and further disseminated the gift; much to the delight of the Nossies themselves as scarcely anyone beyond Caine himself knows Obfuscate can be forcefully manipulated by those who give it against its recipients...The Nossies perverted this Malk's unparalleled immersion in her so-called, "Madness Network" and have been using her to move their information for centuries. She will continue to outmode the telecommunications infrastructure of the entire human race for the next 4,000 years...Can I count on you Mister Hunter Man? Good. I've a working relationship with that special Tremere. He has pined so loudly and for so long over his lost love that his ilk has cast its collective gaze from him. I hope to God your faith is strong enough to break the Nossie will. Reveal her to him and their love will reveal us all. Kill us good Mister Hunter Man. Kill us real good. :)
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z.o.o.
298 days ago
I would love it if Generations are kept secret and could only be inferred by players but, never really known - this would make for treachery of the highest order. I love the, "20,000 Gallon Blood Pyramid" idea but, I think any power derived from one's own progeny must instead be gained by way of a physical act.
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