This topic and others like it have been discussed before, both in blogs and across many different forums. For my own contribution to the discussion, I would like to point out what I feel are some potential weaknesses to the system as it would exist in perhaps a more traditional MMORPG, and ask some questions about the desirability of such a system.
The basic premise of prestation is "I scratch your back, you scratch mine". As we all know however, this does not always work out in the World of Darkness, where backstabbing, momentary expediency, nepotism, and simple apathy wear away at the social and political bonds of the Kindred. Some vampires dedicate themselves merely to keeping track of who owes whom what, never actualy taking part in the game of prestation itself. The complexity and involved nature of the system lends itself to far-reaching social interaction and immense plot threads that can grow out of the smallest misspoken word in Elysium.
That's how things work in tabletop, at least in theory. In an MMORPG, however, I'm worried about another very simple premise of the genre colliding with the very simple premise of prestation: finding stuff to do. It is necessary that an MMORPG, no matter how "sand-boxy" it is, or how reliant on player interaction it is, has PvE elements. There has to be something to do whenever you log online, otherwise there's no point in logging online; the playerbase loses interest and the company loses money, which combine to result in a canceled game. So the following question is one I thought of while bouncing around the theory of prestation in my head: Why don't I just do it myself?
There are bound to be ways to accomplish just about everything the game can offer, if the developers make it at all realistic or balanced. Just because I don't have any dots in Firearms doesn't mean I can never shoot a gun. Just because I only have Charisma 1 in no way prohibits me from socializing with fellow players. Practically, there is nothing stopping me from engaging in any sphere of gameplay that I might need to investigate in order to accomplish my objectives. Unless the developers are going to totally break the mold and completely reshape the modern MMO, there will be some sort of "grinding" going on somewhere, somehow, for somebody. This "somebody" may very well end up only being me - not merely cutting out the middleman, but becoming completely (if slowly and inefficiently) self-sufficient. I theoretically can build my down domain, cultivate my own contacts, exercise my own muscles, and find my own set of lockpicking tools. Especially given the incredibly freedom of character development in the Storytelling system, I could become the ultimate jack-of-all-trades.
That's bad news for prestation. If I can do everything for myself, and getting somebody else to do it means I owe them something that I may be unwilling or unable to pay them back in the future, there's no good reason why I should put myself in that position in the first place. I may not have Obfuscate like the Nosferatu next to me, but I can give it a good shot with Dexterity 3 and Stealth 3. I may not get the best deal on player contracts, but I can still match legalese with a neonate character with Manipulation 2 and Law 1. If I still have the freedom in the MMO that I get in tabletop, then there is that much less reason for me to be social and engage with my fellow players. In short, I would basically be paying a monthly subscription for a massively single-player game.
Now, I love massively single-player games, but I only want to pay for them once. Paying for the privilege of playing alone seems counter-productive in an MMO, and yet at least some of the framework of a single-player game has to be in place for the player who has to, or prefers to get things done for themselves. One of the major themes of both Vampire: The Masquerade and Vampire: The Requiem, however, is the fact that in spite of everything they do to the contrary, vampires get sucked into the world of violence, backstabbing, and "incestuous" politics that is the Jyhad. Something that you do innocently and ignorantly may have distant consequences that suddenly make you the target for a hit-squad of Sabbat vampires, or makes a Camarilla elder whisper a word in the ear of their progeny, and suddenly you're out on the street and your haven belongs to some scummy Brujah - I mean, Nosferatu. I've heard some players lately express the wish to basically play the game by themselves, focus on their own interests, and have as little as possible to do with the larger Cainite community.
That might be a good character goal - to achieve independence and assert one's own power - but it is not conductive to an MMORPG, especially one that promises to be heavily player-based. Many elders claim that they achieve this level of independence and personal comfort, but either there is a huge pile of ash representing their fallen enemies (and friends!) behind them, or they are flat-out lying. There is, quite literally, no such thing as a "self-made vampire".
Independent and self-assertive Gangrel that I am, I of course want to be able to say that I fit into this category. No chains on me, and no strings attached. I've got my motorcycle, the open road, and the starry night over my head. I am beholden to no man. Great. Wonderful. I just broke the game. This is attractive to me as a player-in-character, and yet is not attractive as a business model for the producers, nor is attractive as a set of mechanics for the developers. All in all, then, I have to say that such an approach - where a player character can eventually become good at everything, thereby negating the need for prestation and the involvement of other players - is undesirable. On the other hand, I refuse to be convinced of the idea that players have to interact with one another to succeed in the game. (I still want to be as much a "self-made Gangrel" as I can be.) As a game player, an MMO player, and a player in the Worlds of Darkness, I reject the idea that I should be forced to do anything.
Thus we come back around to the worrying aspect of freedom in an MMO: some people will use it. I'm a little bit stumped in the search to find the happy medium between player-character independence and making sure that I'm playing an MMO properly. We can all be stuck in the sandbox together, as we are in EVE Online, but there's nothing forcing us to cooperate. I don't want the WODMMO to simply turn into a game of numbers or alliances, where you can accomplish just about anything with a sufficient 40 people. Even in EVE Online, succeeding on one's own is downright impossible - there's a reason why "the best" in EVE Online is measured n corporations, not in players. Vampires are much too solitary, paranoid, and vicious to ever exist in such megalithic alliances or political structures. The Camarilla may be the Ivory Tower from the outside, but even the Ivory Tower is made up of individual bricks, and those bricks don't always get along all that well.
6 Comments
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1 Merits
Wobblehd
292 days ago
Playing in an MMO with one of the best soloing classes in that game. I figured out how to "team solo" with my friends. I am sadly having no fun if I am not yapping at people ingame. But there are people that only want to do stuff themselves. They choose the solo class and solo all day and all night. Occasionally, you can get them in a group, or at least hang out with them while they solo, but, lets just say, its rare. Neither style is wrong or bad. Unless I get really drunk, but anyway.... I am hoping somehow, they manage to make both types of people happy, and perhaps get the solo types to hang with us more social types, occasionally. No tradeskills will be bad for that. Or for when your friends aren't on, or your in a bad mood and wanna do something somewhat brainless by yourself. Hopefully there is something to fill that void too. I find the favor's things interesting, lol, how are you gonna keep track? A favor currency, god forbid no. I am oh so not waiting to see how the "plat sellers" infiltrate this game. And oh my. PC's turning people, the "plat sellers" will be there, favor as a currency, they will be there. Blood as a currency, they will be there. Those clowns could really, really hurt this game.
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0 Merits
Well, the good news for any kind of "-seller" in the game is that it makes sense for the setting. Vampires regularly "sell out" their favor, their reputation, and their various kinds of property to somehow get ahead. It's sort of a free-enterprise system as far as Cainite politics go, unlike in other MMOs where you're supposed to be concerned about "*I* earned this *myself* through hours of grinding and PvP". In the World of Darkness, being able to say you got the Primogen to cough up 1,000 reputation points to you not only nets you those actual 1,000 reputation points, it also makes you look stronger in comparison to the primogen, giving you some actual player-on-player social "points". ---- All that said, I know I hate the OOC trading system that goes on with all kinds of resources in MMOs. That's the major danger of having any kind of points system that's tradable. I'm just hoping the IC impact will appear less in a game as politically complex as the WODMMO is supposed to be.
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1 Merits
Bjorn Stalvind
298 days ago
Your statement was quite poetic, and brought a semblance of a man riding a steel horse, who is wanted dead or alive to my mind... but I do not believe vampires are as solitary as you believe. If they were then the Ivory Towers, and the Sword of Caine would not exist. They may believe they are solitary hunters but they still form packs and coterie... I am just saying that I have not seen this 'solitary' aspect as a norm, but as more atypical.
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1 Merits
Malena
299 days ago
Very Gangrel view on prestation and independence, and I would say it doesn't touch the deeper, but not secondary, layer of using it. Any 'independent' kindred not [much] involved in the boon currency becomes quite dangerous to the kindred society, as there's nothing to invoke when a need arises to moderate his actions. It may be disadvantageous in any situation when normally boons are used by kindred [and they want to use them] and your character refuses them, but also in any situation when you accept the boons but not offer them, to remain 'independent'. Sounds great, but that makes you a wild card that shouldn't be offered any task. Also, that may act against you, as no matter if you have any boons to call in, the simple fact that you don't owe anybody may be considered as such kind of powerplay that should be cut short, just to save a rival kindred from gaining power. And also, that makes you a tasty target to ANY kindred involved in the boon currency. If you don't owe anybody there's no problem with compensation as it would be with any other kindred 'in the system' . I would love to see the normal boon currency as the MMO gives an opportunity to register and trade the boons very easily, and force fulfilling them as well, in very "proper" way, with Harpies' kind of politics saved in the game.
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0 Merits
z.o.o.
300 days ago
The indelibly solitary nature of vampires and how it seems a contradiction to the social interaction which an MMOG demands, is a good point. The answer to the implied question of, "How can social interaction and solitude coexist?" is, "Blood Timer." Food. The dire need to feed will bring even the most elusive animals to edge of the Kine's table. Bears, mountain lions, moose, all these feral things avail themselves to the eyes of the human populous for their stomachs' sake. How much less are they than us, these animals, my Gangrel friend? Heh-heh-heh. Inasmuch as we are less than them for their hearts still yet beat. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
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0 Merits
z.o.o.
300 days ago
Erm, uh, I should've typed, "Inasmuch as we are more than they, we are so much more the lesser, for their hearts still yet beat. Ha ha ha ha ha."
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